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Post by Freddie on Jun 19, 2022 6:44:44 GMT 1
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Mar 14, 2019 at 8:57pm xanderares and Lieutenant Freddie like thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Mar 14, 2019 at 8:57pm
I know we talked about this on Disney Comics Forum, but I don't remember whether we've talked about it here.
(1) in Barks's and in Rosa's mid-1900's Duckworld, Junior Woodchucks are boys and the girl scouts are Chickadees (though I cannot resist a shout-out to Barks's earlier Bonfire Girls! I'd much rather be a Bonfire Girl than a Littlest Chickadee!)
(2) in stories by lesser American writers in the 1960's and 1970's, April, May & June were sometimes members of a female scouting organization --no continuity story to story on its name (Red Robins, Nature's Princesses...)
(3) in the stories in the 1990's Italian Junior Woodchucks series (GM), the GM are all male and the girls have their parallel group, the GE
(4) in DuckTales '87, Webby was a Woodchuck
(5) in the USA, the Boy Scouts now also admit girls, though boys and girls are in separate troops; the Girl Scouts of America, a completely separate organization, is still all female; the American scouting organization which used to be Camp Fire Girls (presumably the inspiration for Barks's Bonfire Girls) went co-ed in 1985 and is now called Camp Fire
What's the situation now in Duck comics? How common is it now to show female Woodchucks? I just ran across one instance of a female Woodchuck, in Knut NĂŠrum & Tormod LĂžkling/Arild Midthun's Northern Blight. The troop they meet in the far-north land includes a girl.
Has DuckTales '17 revealed whether its Junior Woodchucks are co-ed?
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Mar 14, 2019 at 9:35pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Scrooge MacDuck on Mar 14, 2019 at 9:35pm
Examination of the Wiki's data shows we don't have records of any other female Woodchucks than Webby. Bugger.
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Mar 14, 2019 at 9:36pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Baar Baar Jinx on Mar 14, 2019 at 9:36pm
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Mar 14, 2019 at 8:57pm Matilda said:
Has DuckTales '17 revealed whether its Junior Woodchucks are co-ed?
I believe they've been shown to be co-ed in the comics.
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Mar 14, 2019 at 9:37pm via mobile Scrooge MacDuck and xanderares like thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by deb on Mar 14, 2019 at 9:37pm
In âWhatever Happened to Della Duckâ Della has her Junior Woodchuckâs Guidebook with her on the moon, so Iâd say yes, the modern DuckTales has co-ed Woodchucks.
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Mar 14, 2019 at 9:37pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Baar Baar Jinx on Mar 14, 2019 at 9:37pm
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Mar 14, 2019 at 9:37pm deb said:
In âWhatever Happened to Della Duckâ Della has her Junior Woodchuckâs Guidebook with her on the moon, so Iâd say yes, the modern DuckTales has co-ed Woodchucks.
Of course! How could we forget that!
BTW, I guess we now have confirmation that the book Della was shown to be consulting in the DuckTales '17 "prequel" comic stories was indeed the JWG, as we speculated.
Last Edit: Mar 14, 2019 at 9:40pm by Baar Baar Jinx
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Mar 14, 2019 at 11:23pm xanderares likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by TheMidgetMoose on Mar 14, 2019 at 11:23pm
A female Junior Woodchuck appears briefly in "The Day of the Only Child." She is a part of a trio with two male Woodchucks. I believe she was voiced by Tara Platt.
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Mar 15, 2019 at 1:06am TheMidgetMoose likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Mar 15, 2019 at 1:06am
Thanks, all! So we have established that in the DuckTales '17 universe the Junior Woodchucks are coed, and have been so at least since Della's childhood.
Any other instances of female Woodchucks in the non-DuckTales comics, besides the one I mentioned?
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Mar 17, 2019 at 7:17pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Mar 17, 2019 at 7:17pm
So, is NĂŠrum & LĂžkling's female member of the far-north Woodchuck troop possibly the *first* female Woodchuck in non-DuckTales comics? Not counting that story where April snuck in in disguise, keeping her high heels on so you could tell it was her even when you couldn't make out her eyelashes....
Last Edit: Mar 17, 2019 at 7:17pm by Matilda
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Jul 11, 2019 at 1:11am QuoteEditlikePost OptionsPost by Lieutenant Freddie on Jul 11, 2019 at 1:11am
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Mar 15, 2019 at 1:06am Matilda said:
Thanks, all! So we have established that in the DuckTales '17 universe the Junior Woodchucks are coed, and have been so at least since Della's childhood.
Any other instances of female Woodchucks in the non-DuckTales comics, besides the one I mentioned?
i now of to female JW members from italian stories
img00.deviantart.net/5dbf/i/2019/191/d/a/4f8a5fe8_d273_4a83_bf8e_656ed7595e7dimage_by_freddiethefixer99-ddbdjph.png
was working a bit and i found this picture in a comic book i have
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The Junior Woodchucks - rank of major( a roleplay liveaction group )
---------------------------------------
Need information about the Duck family tree?
check this out: goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/myducktree.pdf
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Jul 11, 2019 at 1:38am Lieutenant Freddie likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Jul 11, 2019 at 1:38am
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Jul 11, 2019 at 1:11am Lieutenant Freddie said:
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Mar 15, 2019 at 1:06am Matilda said:
Thanks, all! So we have established that in the DuckTales '17 universe the Junior Woodchucks are coed, and have been so at least since Della's childhood.
Any other instances of female Woodchucks in the non-DuckTales comics, besides the one I mentioned?
i now of to female JW members from italian stories
img00.deviantart.net/5dbf/i/2019/191/d/a/4f8a5fe8_d273_4a83_bf8e_656ed7595e7dimage_by_freddiethefixer99-ddbdjph.png
was working a bit and i found this picture in a comic book i have
Thanks! That picture actually shows the scout leader and one of the girl scouts of the female scouting organization, the GE, in the Giovani Marmotte comics of the 1990's. The GE scout leader is Clarissa Van Scout. I'm not sure which girl that is, but she's a member of the GE, not the GM--note the hat! In American scouting terms, she'd be a Girl Scout; in the Barks or Rosa world, she'd be a Chickadee.
Last Edit: Jul 11, 2019 at 1:43am by Matilda
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Jul 11, 2019 at 1:47am QuoteEditlikePost OptionsPost by Lieutenant Freddie on Jul 11, 2019 at 1:47am
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Jul 11, 2019 at 1:38am Matilda said:
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Jul 11, 2019 at 1:11am Lieutenant Freddie said:
i now of to female JW members from italian stories
img00.deviantart.net/5dbf/i/2019/191/d/a/4f8a5fe8_d273_4a83_bf8e_656ed7595e7dimage_by_freddiethefixer99-ddbdjph.png
was working a bit and i found this picture in a comic book i have
Thanks! That picture actually shows the scout leader and one of the girl scouts of the female scouting organization, the GE, in the Giovani Marmotte comics of the 1990's. The GE scout leader is Clarissa Van Scout. I'm not sure which girl that is, but she's a member of the GE, not the GM--note the hat! In American scouting terms, she'd be a Girl Scout; in the Barks or Rosa world, she'd be a Chickadee.
glad to be of help. according to the swedish stories, her name is bettan and she is a Junior Woodchuck. if i remeber correctly, this information isfrom mostly italian stories. but i might be wrong. anyone else knows more?
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The Junior Woodchucks - rank of major( a roleplay liveaction group )
---------------------------------------
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check this out: goofy313g.free.fr/calisota_online/trees/ducktrees/myducktree.pdf
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Jul 11, 2019 at 5:27am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by miin95 on Jul 11, 2019 at 5:27am
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Mar 15, 2019 at 1:06am Matilda said:
Thanks, all! So we have established that in the DuckTales '17 universe the Junior Woodchucks are coed, and have been so at least since Della's childhood.
Any other instances of female Woodchucks in the non-DuckTales comics, besides the one I mentioned?
inducks.org/character.php?c=Chickadees&c1=date&pg=1
there are in Netherlands&Denmark
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Jul 11, 2019 at 6:12pm Lieutenant Freddie likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Jul 11, 2019 at 6:12pm
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Jul 11, 2019 at 5:27am miin95 said:
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Mar 15, 2019 at 1:06am Matilda said:
Thanks, all! So we have established that in the DuckTales '17 universe the Junior Woodchucks are coed, and have been so at least since Della's childhood.
Any other instances of female Woodchucks in the non-DuckTales comics, besides the one I mentioned?
inducks.org/character.php?c=Chickadees&c1=date&pg=1
there are in Netherlands&Denmark
It looks to me like most of these stories feature Woodchucks *and* Chickadees (whatever they're called) as two parallel organizations, male and female. The Easter 2018 one-pager does seem to have male and female Woodchucks; they are lined up in separate groups (if I'm interpreting the picture correctly), but the girls have Woodchuck hats and pennant. Their hats are colored differently, but that's of course a colorist's choice and may not even have been Gentina's intent. Also, I'm interested in the last one on the list, Mix --the summary says that due to financial constraints, the Junior Woodchucks and the Chickadees are going to merge. Can anyone tell me what happens in that story?
Also, Petunia in an Onion Patch sounds like one of those stories where one girl infiltrates the JWs (as April did in an older story). Unless she gets to remain a JW at the end of the story, that doesn't count as a female Woodchuck.
Last Edit: Jul 11, 2019 at 6:19pm by Matilda
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Jul 11, 2019 at 7:38pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Jul 11, 2019 at 7:38pm
p.s. If someone could write out for me the dialogue of the Easter 2018 one-pager, I would much appreciate it! (German or Dutch text is fine; Scandinavian languages I'd just have to depend on Google Translate.) I'm sure the dialogue has nothing to do with the gender-of-Woodchucks issue, but I want to keep the story as a rare example of thoroughly integrated Woodchucks. And nobody is selling that issue by itself on German eBay to buyers outside of Germany. The other countries' printings are far less likely to be available to me for sale.
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Jul 11, 2019 at 9:47pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by gadgetphile on Jul 11, 2019 at 9:47pm
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Jul 11, 2019 at 7:38pm Matilda said:
p.s. If someone could write out for me the dialogue of the Easter 2018 one-pager, I would much appreciate it! (German or Dutch text is fine; Scandinavian languages I'd just have to depend on Google Translate.) I'm sure the dialogue has nothing to do with the gender-of-Woodchucks issue, but I want to keep the story as a rare example of thoroughly integrated Woodchucks. And nobody is selling that issue by itself on German eBay to buyers outside of Germany. The other countries' printings are far less likely to be available to me for sale.
As you wish.
1: "Junior Woodchucks, you can win this giant chocolateegg. And how? By decorating an egg as original (?) as possible."
2: "Creative work aren't us." "No, but chocolate is." "We don't have to do anything. I've got an idea."
3: "We'll just have to pay a visit to Gyro Gearloose."
4: "It wasn't easy but we've got a winner."
5: "All the eggs are nice but the jury is most impressed over..."
6: "...Huey, Dewey and Louie's selfdecorating egg."
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Post by Freddie on Jun 19, 2022 6:45:53 GMT 1
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Jul 12, 2019 at 1:46am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Jul 12, 2019 at 1:46am
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Jul 11, 2019 at 9:47pm gadgetphile said:
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Jul 11, 2019 at 7:38pm Matilda said:
p.s. If someone could write out for me the dialogue of the Easter 2018 one-pager, I would much appreciate it! (German or Dutch text is fine; Scandinavian languages I'd just have to depend on Google Translate.) I'm sure the dialogue has nothing to do with the gender-of-Woodchucks issue, but I want to keep the story as a rare example of thoroughly integrated Woodchucks. And nobody is selling that issue by itself on German eBay to buyers outside of Germany. The other countries' printings are far less likely to be available to me for sale.
As you wish.
1: "Junior Woodchucks, you can win this giant chocolateegg. And how? By decorating an egg as original (?) as possible."
2: "Creative work aren't us." "No, but chocolate is." "We don't have to do anything. I've got an idea."
3: "We'll just have to pay a visit to Gyro Gearloose."
4: "It wasn't easy but we've got a winner."
5: "All the eggs are nice but the jury is most impressed over..."
6: "...Huey, Dewey and Louie's selfdecorating egg."
Thanks muchly, gadgetphile!
People may come up with more published examples over time, but at this point, this one-pager stands out for depicting a Junior Woodchuck organization with male and female troops. It's the first story I've seen that shows more than *one* female Woodchuck!
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Jul 3, 2020 at 9:08pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Jul 3, 2020 at 9:08pm
Update on female Woodchucks in non-DuckTales comics:
I observe that the abovementioned Easter 2018 one-pager by Gentina is catalogued on Inducks as featuring Chickadees as well as Woodchucks. However, the girls, while possibly in a separate troop, are clearly wearing Woodchuck hats and brandishing a Woodchuck flag. The only thing that makes their insignia look different in the Inducks scans is the coloring.
Meanwhile...I just got the Journal de Mickey with SeppÀlÀ's Look for Life in it. HDL are with a group of Woodchucks at a gathering of representatives of many different scouting organizations of different nations, taking place in Madagascar. There is a female Woodchuck with pigtails/ponytails (which word you use in English for this hairstyle depends on what region of the USA you live in) depicted in panel four of p. 2, and another girl Woodchuck with the same hairstyle shown in the first and last panels of the last page. On the last page the girl seems clearly to be part of a troop with boys. The hair of the two girls is colored differently in the French printing, and there are other cues which make me think they're two different girls, though they could conceivably be the single Smurfette. So, another instance of girls among the Woodchucks. Postdates Northern Blight, slightly predates the Gentina one-pager.
Seems to me that the editors (both Italian and Egmont) are either allowing or promoting the inclusion of girls in the Woodchucks, outside the DuckTales 'verse. Any other examples any of you have run across in the last year?
Last Edit: Jul 3, 2020 at 9:22pm by Matilda
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Jul 4, 2020 at 2:57am via mobile Matilda, Spectrus, and 1 more like thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by anonnewbie on Jul 4, 2020 at 2:57am
inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+3362-1P
I think some female woodvhucks appear on this one
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Feb 1, 2022 at 5:55am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Feb 1, 2022 at 5:55am
In LTB 553, the one with Astrup's Magica origin story in it, there's also this Italian JW story which shows more than one female Woodchuck. From the Inducks listing, it looks as though a couple of these ("Beth" and "Michelle"? are those both Woodchucks?) are taken from the story anonnewbie referred to above. That one was authored by Federico Rossi Edrighi; this more recent one by Marco Nucci, so it's not just a case of one author reusing characters he introduced. In the Nucci story the female Woodchucks are definitely mixed in with the male JWs in the same troop, not in a separate troop. (I haven't seen the Alaska story yet.)
So, it looks like both Italian and Egmont editors have decided to go along with a co-ed Woodchucks organization.
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Feb 1, 2022 at 9:56am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by juicymcduck on Feb 1, 2022 at 9:56am
When I was still a part of the Catholic Baden-Powell-Scout Federation of Belgium (now just "The Scouts"), boys and girls were together between the ages of 6 and 8, as "baladins", but separated into different troops after that, as "louveteaux" and "louvettes" (8 to 12), "Ă©claireurs" and "Ă©claireuses" (12 to 16), and finally "pionniers" and "pionniĂšres" (156 to 18). I've been out of the loop for a looong time, but I think that nowadays most sections are co-ed, although it's by no means mandatory. (Personally, I think it's a good thing that they're turning towards co-ed, but there are arguments to be made for both positions. I think having the choice is good.).
Last Edit: Feb 1, 2022 at 7:01pm by juicymcduck
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Feb 2, 2022 at 12:30am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by sim on Feb 2, 2022 at 12:30am
I've never been a scout myself, but I am pretty sure it's mixed in Italy
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Feb 2, 2022 at 1:54am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by bats on Feb 2, 2022 at 1:54am
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Feb 2, 2022 at 12:30am sim said:
I've never been a scout myself, but I am pretty sure it's mixed in Italy
I believe it depends on the organization.
(as a former boy scout, I'm no big fan of forced co-ed. Boys and girls ARE different, and it's healthy for them to have organized activities like this that actually take this into account. At that age you do a lot of co-ed scout-esque stuff in school anyway)
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Feb 7, 2022 at 6:03pm via mobile Matilda likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by Daniel Maline on Feb 7, 2022 at 6:03pm
In Finland, the "original" division between the Woodchuks and Chickadees scouts is still maintained because the Finnish editorial wants to be loyal and faithful to the duck universe of Barks as a fanservice and so much as it is still possible. This has been taken so far that when it comes to a male scout then it is always the Woodchuks and when it comes to a female scout then it is always the Chickadees, no matter what the original language said. For example, in one scout story by Nino Russo and Alessandro Barbucci, the girls and boys are possibly the same scout organization with different clothes, but in the Finnish translation it was decided to split them into Woodchuks and Chickadees. But correct me if Iâm wrong because Iâve never gotten to read the original Italian story.
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Feb 8, 2022 at 9:16am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by juicymcduck on Feb 8, 2022 at 9:16am
Speaking of all this, are the Chickadees actually confirmed to belong to the same organization as Clinton Coot's JW?
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Feb 8, 2022 at 5:36pm juicymcduck likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Feb 8, 2022 at 5:36pm
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Feb 8, 2022 at 9:16am juicymcduck said:
Speaking of all this, are the Chickadees actually confirmed to belong to the same organization as Clinton Coot's JW?
See, now, there's an interesting question. First of all, I'd say that even if they are said to belong to the same organization in one story, I wouldn't call that "confirming" because all the stories can't possibly fit into one coherent narrative (which you know I think is a *good* thing).
In Barks and Rosa, the assumption appears to be separate organizations. This would accord with the scouting set-up in the USA, where the Girl Scouts and the Boy Scouts are separate organizations. The waters are somewhat muddied by the recent acceptance of girls into the Boy Scouts, but that occurred even after the period when Rosa was writing, not to mention decades after the mid-20th-century setting of his stories. One way I would underline the separateness of the organizations is to say that the Chickadees have no access to the miraculous JW Guidebook. It is true that the joke/allure of the Guidebook is diminished in these smartphone/Wikipedia days, but that's still a significant marker in the old days.
Marginally relevant detour: When the DuckTales story The Arcadian Urn was published in the USA in 2011, Webby's generic guide to Greece was called a Chickadee Field Guide in the American dialogue. Gerstein later said on Disney Comics Forum:
Jonathan Gray and I translated this story from Dutch; in the Dutch version, at least, Webby's book was simply a basic guide to ancient Greece. Nothing about the Chickadees (or, for that matter, Woodchucks) was mentioned.
Jon felt the book's rather intricate knowledge seemed inappropriate for a basic guide, so he decided to make Webby a Chickadee and the book her manualâgood idea.
We translated from Dutch, by the way, because Egmont couldn't locate Halas' original British English version to send us. So we still don't know what the very first version of the story called the guide.<end quotation>
This may be the only instance of the Chickadees' having a guidebook with impressive arcane knowledge! As a reader with a Rosa-type headcanon, I was fine with this because it was in a story from the DuckTales alternate universe. Possibly David Gerstein was fine with it for that reason, too. I don't know whether they would have put a Chickadee Field Guide with arcane knowledge into a story from the regular Duckworld. Even so, they were keeping the DuckTales world of this comic story more in line with the regular Duckworld by making Webby a Chickadee rather than a Woodchuck, even though she was a JW in one episode of Original DuckTales. (Of course, it wouldn't have made sense for her book in this scene to be the JW Guidebook, since she alone apparently has it; the boys listen to her read from it.)
And back to Barks' and Rosa's world, the uniforms, insignia and titles in the two scouting groups are all distinct. The Chickadees do not go in for amusing acronyms! Nor for abundant medals. I'd also say that the dishonorable behavior of Captain Ramrod in The Chickadee Challenge would not have been portrayed in a JW troop leader.
In the USA, it is Girl Scouts who sell cookies to raise money, cookies that are actually manufactured and packaged/labeled as "Girl Scout cookies" of different varieties. I don't know whether the Chickadees have ever been portrayed as cookie-sellers, but I was amused when I read a European story where the all-male Junior Woodchucks were selling cookies, since that's something only Girl Scouts do here.
In the myriad stories where Chickadees compete with Junior Woodchucks, there is typically no indication that the two groups are part of a single organization.
I don't believe the two scouting groups were portrayed as part of a single overall organization in the Italian GM comics...but I've only read a handful of those, please correct me if I'm wrong.
If the writer of a story lives in a country where the girls' and boys' scouting outfits are part of a single organization, it would make sense that that would be their default understanding and presentation of the Chickadees and JWs. I don't know whether that has come across clearly in any story/stories. Earlier on this thread I noted the Dutch story Mix, whose summary says that due to financial constraints, the Junior Woodchucks and the Chickadees are going to merge. I asked whether anyone had read that and could say more about it, but no one has responded so far.
Last Edit: Feb 8, 2022 at 5:51pm by Matilda
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Feb 8, 2022 at 8:54pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by juicymcduck on Feb 8, 2022 at 8:54pm
I just remembered this passage from W.H.A.D.A.L.O.T.T.A.J.A.R.G.O.N., in which Scrooge just said he'll fire every "screwball Woodchuck" currently in his employ. The way the female employee phrases her response would indicate that the former Chickadees would quit out of solidarity, so I guess you're absolutely right: they must be separate organizations.
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Feb 8, 2022 at 9:19pm Spectrus likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by That Duckfan on Feb 8, 2022 at 9:19pm
As an aside, I *really* like the idea of there being a Chickadee Guidebook as well. Why should the girl scouts be inferior to the boy scouts? The Barks stories where they compete, Chickadees can pretty firmly hold their own against Woodchucks.
If there's one reservoir of inexhaustible knowledge, there might as well be two. I bet ol' Coot never bothered to add cookie recipes to his Guidebook!
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Feb 8, 2022 at 10:09pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Pim on Feb 8, 2022 at 10:09pm
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Feb 8, 2022 at 9:19pm That Duckfan said:
As an aside, I *really* like the idea of there being a Chickadee Guidebook as well. Why should the girl scouts be inferior to the boy scouts? The Barks stories where they compete, Chickadees can pretty firmly hold their own against Woodchucks.
Note that there is a one-pager in which it is confirmed that they have their own guidebook: Boek-lopers.
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Feb 8, 2022 at 9:19pm That Duckfan said:
If there's one reservoir of inexhaustible knowledge, there might as well be two. I bet ol' Coot never bothered to add cookie recipes to his Guidebook!
What does making cookies have to do with having to a guidebook for the Chikadees?
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Feb 8, 2022 at 11:54pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Feb 8, 2022 at 11:54pm
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Feb 8, 2022 at 10:09pm Pim said:
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Feb 8, 2022 at 9:19pm That Duckfan said:
As an aside, I *really* like the idea of there being a Chickadee Guidebook as well. Why should the girl scouts be inferior to the boy scouts? The Barks stories where they compete, Chickadees can pretty firmly hold their own against Woodchucks.
Note that there is a one-pager in which it is confirmed that they have their own guidebook: Boek-lopers.
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Feb 8, 2022 at 9:19pm That Duckfan said:
If there's one reservoir of inexhaustible knowledge, there might as well be two. I bet ol' Coot never bothered to add cookie recipes to his Guidebook!
What does making cookies have to do with having to a guidebook for the Chikadees?
On your second question: That Duckfan is probably referring to what I said about only Girl Scouts selling cookies in the USA.
Thanks much for the reference to the one-pager! Since I can't read the dialogue in the Inducks scan, and since it hasn't been published in France or Germany from whence I might be able to buy a copy, I would greatly appreciate it if you would post an English translation of the dialogue. (Or just post it in the language you have it in, and I'll run it through GoogleTranslate.) Like That Duckfan, I do really like the idea of the Chickadees having their own Guidebook...I just have reluctantly accepted in my personal headcanon that the magical JW Guidebook is inaccessible to them as to any non-JWs, and that its singular origin story is impossible of replication, so that there couldn't be another magical compendium of All Knowledge available to the girls. But I'm very much interested in the idea of a Chickadee Guidebook. I would be most interested to hear what this one-pager indicates about their guidebook. Plus, it's not really off-topic, because it would shed light on Geradts' understanding of the relation between the two organizations. Though of course Geradts has never been known for caring about continuity or consistency, even within his own output! So this would show only Geradts' theory for the purposes of this one-pager.
Last Edit: Feb 9, 2022 at 12:26am by Matilda
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Feb 9, 2022 at 2:36am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Feb 9, 2022 at 2:36am
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Feb 7, 2022 at 6:03pm Daniel Maline said:
In Finland, the "original" division between the Woodchuks and Chickadees scouts is still maintained because the Finnish editorial wants to be loyal and faithful to the duck universe of Barks as a fanservice and so much as it is still possible. This has been taken so far that when it comes to a male scout then it is always the Woodchuks and when it comes to a female scout then it is always the Chickadees, no matter what the original language said. For example, in one scout story by Nino Russo and Alessandro Barbucci, the girls and boys are possibly the same scout organization with different clothes, but in the Finnish translation it was decided to split them into Woodchuks and Chickadees. But correct me if Iâm wrong because Iâve never gotten to read the original Italian story.
Daniel Maline: Could you please give the title of the Russo/Barbucci story you refer to here? It's an interesting example, both of original intent and of editorial rewriting.
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Post by Freddie on Jun 19, 2022 6:47:10 GMT 1
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Jul 12, 2019 at 1:46am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Jul 12, 2019 at 1:46am
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Jul 11, 2019 at 9:47pm gadgetphile said:
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Jul 11, 2019 at 7:38pm Matilda said:
p.s. If someone could write out for me the dialogue of the Easter 2018 one-pager, I would much appreciate it! (German or Dutch text is fine; Scandinavian languages I'd just have to depend on Google Translate.) I'm sure the dialogue has nothing to do with the gender-of-Woodchucks issue, but I want to keep the story as a rare example of thoroughly integrated Woodchucks. And nobody is selling that issue by itself on German eBay to buyers outside of Germany. The other countries' printings are far less likely to be available to me for sale.
As you wish.
1: "Junior Woodchucks, you can win this giant chocolateegg. And how? By decorating an egg as original (?) as possible."
2: "Creative work aren't us." "No, but chocolate is." "We don't have to do anything. I've got an idea."
3: "We'll just have to pay a visit to Gyro Gearloose."
4: "It wasn't easy but we've got a winner."
5: "All the eggs are nice but the jury is most impressed over..."
6: "...Huey, Dewey and Louie's selfdecorating egg."
Thanks muchly, gadgetphile!
People may come up with more published examples over time, but at this point, this one-pager stands out for depicting a Junior Woodchuck organization with male and female troops. It's the first story I've seen that shows more than *one* female Woodchuck!
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Jul 3, 2020 at 9:08pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Jul 3, 2020 at 9:08pm
Update on female Woodchucks in non-DuckTales comics:
I observe that the abovementioned Easter 2018 one-pager by Gentina is catalogued on Inducks as featuring Chickadees as well as Woodchucks. However, the girls, while possibly in a separate troop, are clearly wearing Woodchuck hats and brandishing a Woodchuck flag. The only thing that makes their insignia look different in the Inducks scans is the coloring.
Meanwhile...I just got the Journal de Mickey with SeppÀlÀ's Look for Life in it. HDL are with a group of Woodchucks at a gathering of representatives of many different scouting organizations of different nations, taking place in Madagascar. There is a female Woodchuck with pigtails/ponytails (which word you use in English for this hairstyle depends on what region of the USA you live in) depicted in panel four of p. 2, and another girl Woodchuck with the same hairstyle shown in the first and last panels of the last page. On the last page the girl seems clearly to be part of a troop with boys. The hair of the two girls is colored differently in the French printing, and there are other cues which make me think they're two different girls, though they could conceivably be the single Smurfette. So, another instance of girls among the Woodchucks. Postdates Northern Blight, slightly predates the Gentina one-pager.
Seems to me that the editors (both Italian and Egmont) are either allowing or promoting the inclusion of girls in the Woodchucks, outside the DuckTales 'verse. Any other examples any of you have run across in the last year?
Last Edit: Jul 3, 2020 at 9:22pm by Matilda
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Jul 4, 2020 at 2:57am via mobile Matilda, Spectrus, and 1 more like thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by anonnewbie on Jul 4, 2020 at 2:57am
inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+3362-1P
I think some female woodvhucks appear on this one
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Feb 1, 2022 at 5:55am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Feb 1, 2022 at 5:55am
In LTB 553, the one with Astrup's Magica origin story in it, there's also this Italian JW story which shows more than one female Woodchuck. From the Inducks listing, it looks as though a couple of these ("Beth" and "Michelle"? are those both Woodchucks?) are taken from the story anonnewbie referred to above. That one was authored by Federico Rossi Edrighi; this more recent one by Marco Nucci, so it's not just a case of one author reusing characters he introduced. In the Nucci story the female Woodchucks are definitely mixed in with the male JWs in the same troop, not in a separate troop. (I haven't seen the Alaska story yet.)
So, it looks like both Italian and Egmont editors have decided to go along with a co-ed Woodchucks organization.
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Feb 1, 2022 at 9:56am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by juicymcduck on Feb 1, 2022 at 9:56am
When I was still a part of the Catholic Baden-Powell-Scout Federation of Belgium (now just "The Scouts"), boys and girls were together between the ages of 6 and 8, as "baladins", but separated into different troops after that, as "louveteaux" and "louvettes" (8 to 12), "Ă©claireurs" and "Ă©claireuses" (12 to 16), and finally "pionniers" and "pionniĂšres" (156 to 18). I've been out of the loop for a looong time, but I think that nowadays most sections are co-ed, although it's by no means mandatory. (Personally, I think it's a good thing that they're turning towards co-ed, but there are arguments to be made for both positions. I think having the choice is good.).
Last Edit: Feb 1, 2022 at 7:01pm by juicymcduck
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Feb 2, 2022 at 12:30am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by sim on Feb 2, 2022 at 12:30am
I've never been a scout myself, but I am pretty sure it's mixed in Italy
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Feb 2, 2022 at 1:54am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by bats on Feb 2, 2022 at 1:54am
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Feb 2, 2022 at 12:30am sim said:
I've never been a scout myself, but I am pretty sure it's mixed in Italy
I believe it depends on the organization.
(as a former boy scout, I'm no big fan of forced co-ed. Boys and girls ARE different, and it's healthy for them to have organized activities like this that actually take this into account. At that age you do a lot of co-ed scout-esque stuff in school anyway)
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Feb 7, 2022 at 6:03pm via mobile Matilda likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by Daniel Maline on Feb 7, 2022 at 6:03pm
In Finland, the "original" division between the Woodchuks and Chickadees scouts is still maintained because the Finnish editorial wants to be loyal and faithful to the duck universe of Barks as a fanservice and so much as it is still possible. This has been taken so far that when it comes to a male scout then it is always the Woodchuks and when it comes to a female scout then it is always the Chickadees, no matter what the original language said. For example, in one scout story by Nino Russo and Alessandro Barbucci, the girls and boys are possibly the same scout organization with different clothes, but in the Finnish translation it was decided to split them into Woodchuks and Chickadees. But correct me if Iâm wrong because Iâve never gotten to read the original Italian story.
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Feb 8, 2022 at 9:16am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by juicymcduck on Feb 8, 2022 at 9:16am
Speaking of all this, are the Chickadees actually confirmed to belong to the same organization as Clinton Coot's JW?
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Feb 8, 2022 at 5:36pm juicymcduck likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Feb 8, 2022 at 5:36pm
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Feb 8, 2022 at 9:16am juicymcduck said:
Speaking of all this, are the Chickadees actually confirmed to belong to the same organization as Clinton Coot's JW?
See, now, there's an interesting question. First of all, I'd say that even if they are said to belong to the same organization in one story, I wouldn't call that "confirming" because all the stories can't possibly fit into one coherent narrative (which you know I think is a *good* thing).
In Barks and Rosa, the assumption appears to be separate organizations. This would accord with the scouting set-up in the USA, where the Girl Scouts and the Boy Scouts are separate organizations. The waters are somewhat muddied by the recent acceptance of girls into the Boy Scouts, but that occurred even after the period when Rosa was writing, not to mention decades after the mid-20th-century setting of his stories. One way I would underline the separateness of the organizations is to say that the Chickadees have no access to the miraculous JW Guidebook. It is true that the joke/allure of the Guidebook is diminished in these smartphone/Wikipedia days, but that's still a significant marker in the old days.
Marginally relevant detour: When the DuckTales story The Arcadian Urn was published in the USA in 2011, Webby's generic guide to Greece was called a Chickadee Field Guide in the American dialogue. Gerstein later said on Disney Comics Forum:
Jonathan Gray and I translated this story from Dutch; in the Dutch version, at least, Webby's book was simply a basic guide to ancient Greece. Nothing about the Chickadees (or, for that matter, Woodchucks) was mentioned.
Jon felt the book's rather intricate knowledge seemed inappropriate for a basic guide, so he decided to make Webby a Chickadee and the book her manualâgood idea.
We translated from Dutch, by the way, because Egmont couldn't locate Halas' original British English version to send us. So we still don't know what the very first version of the story called the guide.<end quotation>
This may be the only instance of the Chickadees' having a guidebook with impressive arcane knowledge! As a reader with a Rosa-type headcanon, I was fine with this because it was in a story from the DuckTales alternate universe. Possibly David Gerstein was fine with it for that reason, too. I don't know whether they would have put a Chickadee Field Guide with arcane knowledge into a story from the regular Duckworld. Even so, they were keeping the DuckTales world of this comic story more in line with the regular Duckworld by making Webby a Chickadee rather than a Woodchuck, even though she was a JW in one episode of Original DuckTales. (Of course, it wouldn't have made sense for her book in this scene to be the JW Guidebook, since she alone apparently has it; the boys listen to her read from it.)
And back to Barks' and Rosa's world, the uniforms, insignia and titles in the two scouting groups are all distinct. The Chickadees do not go in for amusing acronyms! Nor for abundant medals. I'd also say that the dishonorable behavior of Captain Ramrod in The Chickadee Challenge would not have been portrayed in a JW troop leader.
In the USA, it is Girl Scouts who sell cookies to raise money, cookies that are actually manufactured and packaged/labeled as "Girl Scout cookies" of different varieties. I don't know whether the Chickadees have ever been portrayed as cookie-sellers, but I was amused when I read a European story where the all-male Junior Woodchucks were selling cookies, since that's something only Girl Scouts do here.
In the myriad stories where Chickadees compete with Junior Woodchucks, there is typically no indication that the two groups are part of a single organization.
I don't believe the two scouting groups were portrayed as part of a single overall organization in the Italian GM comics...but I've only read a handful of those, please correct me if I'm wrong.
If the writer of a story lives in a country where the girls' and boys' scouting outfits are part of a single organization, it would make sense that that would be their default understanding and presentation of the Chickadees and JWs. I don't know whether that has come across clearly in any story/stories. Earlier on this thread I noted the Dutch story Mix, whose summary says that due to financial constraints, the Junior Woodchucks and the Chickadees are going to merge. I asked whether anyone had read that and could say more about it, but no one has responded so far.
Last Edit: Feb 8, 2022 at 5:51pm by Matilda
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Feb 8, 2022 at 8:54pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by juicymcduck on Feb 8, 2022 at 8:54pm
I just remembered this passage from W.H.A.D.A.L.O.T.T.A.J.A.R.G.O.N., in which Scrooge just said he'll fire every "screwball Woodchuck" currently in his employ. The way the female employee phrases her response would indicate that the former Chickadees would quit out of solidarity, so I guess you're absolutely right: they must be separate organizations.
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Feb 8, 2022 at 9:19pm Spectrus likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by That Duckfan on Feb 8, 2022 at 9:19pm
As an aside, I *really* like the idea of there being a Chickadee Guidebook as well. Why should the girl scouts be inferior to the boy scouts? The Barks stories where they compete, Chickadees can pretty firmly hold their own against Woodchucks.
If there's one reservoir of inexhaustible knowledge, there might as well be two. I bet ol' Coot never bothered to add cookie recipes to his Guidebook!
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Feb 8, 2022 at 10:09pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Pim on Feb 8, 2022 at 10:09pm
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Feb 8, 2022 at 9:19pm That Duckfan said:
As an aside, I *really* like the idea of there being a Chickadee Guidebook as well. Why should the girl scouts be inferior to the boy scouts? The Barks stories where they compete, Chickadees can pretty firmly hold their own against Woodchucks.
Note that there is a one-pager in which it is confirmed that they have their own guidebook: Boek-lopers.
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Feb 8, 2022 at 9:19pm That Duckfan said:
If there's one reservoir of inexhaustible knowledge, there might as well be two. I bet ol' Coot never bothered to add cookie recipes to his Guidebook!
What does making cookies have to do with having to a guidebook for the Chikadees?
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Feb 8, 2022 at 11:54pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Feb 8, 2022 at 11:54pm
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Feb 8, 2022 at 10:09pm Pim said:
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Feb 8, 2022 at 9:19pm That Duckfan said:
As an aside, I *really* like the idea of there being a Chickadee Guidebook as well. Why should the girl scouts be inferior to the boy scouts? The Barks stories where they compete, Chickadees can pretty firmly hold their own against Woodchucks.
Note that there is a one-pager in which it is confirmed that they have their own guidebook: Boek-lopers.
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Feb 8, 2022 at 9:19pm That Duckfan said:
If there's one reservoir of inexhaustible knowledge, there might as well be two. I bet ol' Coot never bothered to add cookie recipes to his Guidebook!
What does making cookies have to do with having to a guidebook for the Chikadees?
On your second question: That Duckfan is probably referring to what I said about only Girl Scouts selling cookies in the USA.
Thanks much for the reference to the one-pager! Since I can't read the dialogue in the Inducks scan, and since it hasn't been published in France or Germany from whence I might be able to buy a copy, I would greatly appreciate it if you would post an English translation of the dialogue. (Or just post it in the language you have it in, and I'll run it through GoogleTranslate.) Like That Duckfan, I do really like the idea of the Chickadees having their own Guidebook...I just have reluctantly accepted in my personal headcanon that the magical JW Guidebook is inaccessible to them as to any non-JWs, and that its singular origin story is impossible of replication, so that there couldn't be another magical compendium of All Knowledge available to the girls. But I'm very much interested in the idea of a Chickadee Guidebook. I would be most interested to hear what this one-pager indicates about their guidebook. Plus, it's not really off-topic, because it would shed light on Geradts' understanding of the relation between the two organizations. Though of course Geradts has never been known for caring about continuity or consistency, even within his own output! So this would show only Geradts' theory for the purposes of this one-pager.
Last Edit: Feb 9, 2022 at 12:26am by Matilda
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Feb 9, 2022 at 2:36am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Feb 9, 2022 at 2:36am
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Feb 7, 2022 at 6:03pm Daniel Maline said:
In Finland, the "original" division between the Woodchuks and Chickadees scouts is still maintained because the Finnish editorial wants to be loyal and faithful to the duck universe of Barks as a fanservice and so much as it is still possible. This has been taken so far that when it comes to a male scout then it is always the Woodchuks and when it comes to a female scout then it is always the Chickadees, no matter what the original language said. For example, in one scout story by Nino Russo and Alessandro Barbucci, the girls and boys are possibly the same scout organization with different clothes, but in the Finnish translation it was decided to split them into Woodchuks and Chickadees. But correct me if Iâm wrong because Iâve never gotten to read the original Italian story.
Daniel Maline: Could you please give the title of the Russo/Barbucci story you refer to here? It's an interesting example, both of original intent and of editorial rewriting.
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Post by Freddie on Jun 19, 2022 6:48:30 GMT 1
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Feb 9, 2022 at 9:38am Matilda and Spectrus like thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by juicymcduck on Feb 9, 2022 at 9:38am
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Feb 8, 2022 at 11:54pm Matilda said:
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Feb 8, 2022 at 10:09pm Pim said:
Note that there is a one-pager in which it is confirmed that they have their own guidebook: Boek-lopers.
What does making cookies have to do with having to a guidebook for the Chikadees?
On your second question: That Duckfan is probably referring to what I said about only Girl Scouts selling cookies in the USA.
Thanks much for the reference to the one-pager! Since I can't read the dialogue in the Inducks scan, and since it hasn't been published in France or Germany from whence I might be able to buy a copy, I would greatly appreciate it if you would post an English translation of the dialogue. (Or just post it in the language you have it in, and I'll run it through GoogleTranslate.) Like That Duckfan, I do really like the idea of the Chickadees having their own Guidebook...I just have reluctantly accepted in my personal headcanon that the magical JW Guidebook is inaccessible to them as to any non-JWs, and that its singular origin story is impossible of replication, so that there couldn't be another magical compendium of All Knowledge available to the girls. But I'm very much interested in the idea of a Chickadee Guidebook. I would be most interested to hear what this one-pager indicates about their guidebook. Plus, it's not really off-topic, because it would shed light on Geradts' understanding of the relation between the two organizations. Though of course Geradts has never been known for caring about continuity or consistency, even within his own output! So this would show only Geradts' theory for the purposes of this one-pager.
From the original Dutch (I translated very quickly, so don't expect anything worthy of Hemingway, but it still should do the trick):
âNo, we don't have the Junior Woodchucks' Manual! We've got the Chickadees' Book! And there are very useful things in it!â
âHa! Ha! Like how to paint your nails, surely?â
âPooh! It explains how to distinguish the buttercup from the kingcup!â
âNow who's interested in that?â
âAnd the difference between pines and spruces!â
âWhat's the use of that?â
âIt explains the difference between a toad and a frog!â
âHa! Ha! That's what we call a useless book!â
âA real Junior Woodchuck can see that from a kilometer away...â
âIt also tells you how to distinguish a patch of grassland from a pond covered with DUCKWEED from a distance!â
Last Edit: Feb 9, 2022 at 9:39am by juicymcduck
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Feb 9, 2022 at 4:12pm Matilda likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by Spectrus on Feb 9, 2022 at 4:12pm
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Feb 9, 2022 at 2:36am Matilda said:
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Feb 7, 2022 at 6:03pm Daniel Maline said:
In Finland, the "original" division between the Woodchuks and Chickadees scouts is still maintained because the Finnish editorial wants to be loyal and faithful to the duck universe of Barks as a fanservice and so much as it is still possible. This has been taken so far that when it comes to a male scout then it is always the Woodchuks and when it comes to a female scout then it is always the Chickadees, no matter what the original language said. For example, in one scout story by Nino Russo and Alessandro Barbucci, the girls and boys are possibly the same scout organization with different clothes, but in the Finnish translation it was decided to split them into Woodchuks and Chickadees. But correct me if Iâm wrong because Iâve never gotten to read the original Italian story.
Daniel Maline: Could you please give the title of the Russo/Barbucci story you refer to here? It's an interesting example, both of original intent and of editorial rewriting.
I'm not Daniel but Inducks only returns one story by those two artists with the Junior Woodchucks, so it must be this: inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+2099-2
I have this one so I should look for it. Same with "Mix" - I think I know where the magazine is where that was printed.
Last Edit: Feb 9, 2022 at 4:21pm by Spectrus
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Feb 9, 2022 at 5:28pm juicymcduck likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Feb 9, 2022 at 5:28pm
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Feb 9, 2022 at 9:38am juicymcduck said:
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Feb 8, 2022 at 11:54pm Matilda said:
On your second question: That Duckfan is probably referring to what I said about only Girl Scouts selling cookies in the USA.
Thanks much for the reference to the one-pager! Since I can't read the dialogue in the Inducks scan, and since it hasn't been published in France or Germany from whence I might be able to buy a copy, I would greatly appreciate it if you would post an English translation of the dialogue. (Or just post it in the language you have it in, and I'll run it through GoogleTranslate.) Like That Duckfan, I do really like the idea of the Chickadees having their own Guidebook...I just have reluctantly accepted in my personal headcanon that the magical JW Guidebook is inaccessible to them as to any non-JWs, and that its singular origin story is impossible of replication, so that there couldn't be another magical compendium of All Knowledge available to the girls. But I'm very much interested in the idea of a Chickadee Guidebook. I would be most interested to hear what this one-pager indicates about their guidebook. Plus, it's not really off-topic, because it would shed light on Geradts' understanding of the relation between the two organizations. Though of course Geradts has never been known for caring about continuity or consistency, even within his own output! So this would show only Geradts' theory for the purposes of this one-pager.
From the original Dutch (I translated very quickly, so don't expect anything worthy of Hemingway, but it still should do the trick):
âNo, we don't have the Junior Woodchucks' Manual! We've got the Chickadees' Book! And there are very useful things in it!â
âHa! Ha! Like how to paint your nails, surely?â
âPooh! It explains how to distinguish the buttercup from the kingcup!â
âNow who's interested in that?â
âAnd the difference between pines and spruces!â
âWhat's the use of that?â
âIt explains the difference between a toad and a frog!â
âHa! Ha! That's what we call a useless book!â
âA real Junior Woodchuck can see that from a kilometer away...â
âIt also tells you how to distinguish a patch of grassland from a pond covered with DUCKWEED from a distance!â
Thank you, juicymcduck!! So this does tell us that Geradts (at least for the purposes of this particular one-pager) views the two scouting groups as separate organizations with different manuals.
As a reader with a Rosa-shaped headcanon, I have a problem with the first two responses from the Woodchucks--they shouldn't pooh-pooh the ability to identify plants. The last response is better: "A real JW can see that...." For my own purposes, I would rewrite this so that the JWs' first two responses would be something like, "That's obvious!" or "We've known that since we were Minor Marmots [or whatever the equivalent of Cub Scouts is in the JWs!]" or "Anyone can tell that!" Then the JWs would be sunk (heh-heh) not by their disinterest in learning but by their hubris about their own knowledge, which feels more appropriate!
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Feb 9, 2022 at 5:31pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Feb 9, 2022 at 5:31pm
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Feb 9, 2022 at 4:12pm Spectrus said:
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Feb 9, 2022 at 2:36am Matilda said:
Daniel Maline: Could you please give the title of the Russo/Barbucci story you refer to here? It's an interesting example, both of original intent and of editorial rewriting.
I'm not Daniel but Inducks only returns one story by those two artists with the Junior Woodchucks, so it must be this: inducks.org/story.php?c=I+TL+2099-2
I have this one so I should look for it. Same with "Mix" - I think I know where the magazine is where that was printed.
Thanks! I await your report on the two stories and what they imply about the relationship between the female and male scouting groups.
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Feb 10, 2022 at 12:37pm via mobile Spectrus likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by Daniel Maline on Feb 10, 2022 at 12:37pm
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Feb 9, 2022 at 2:36am Matilda said:
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Feb 7, 2022 at 6:03pm Daniel Maline said:
In Finland, the "original" division between the Woodchuks and Chickadees scouts is still maintained because the Finnish editorial wants to be loyal and faithful to the duck universe of Barks as a fanservice and so much as it is still possible. This has been taken so far that when it comes to a male scout then it is always the Woodchuks and when it comes to a female scout then it is always the Chickadees, no matter what the original language said. For example, in one scout story by Nino Russo and Alessandro Barbucci, the girls and boys are possibly the same scout organization with different clothes, but in the Finnish translation it was decided to split them into Woodchuks and Chickadees. But correct me if Iâm wrong because Iâve never gotten to read the original Italian story.
Daniel Maline: Could you please give the title of the Russo/Barbucci story you refer to here? It's an interesting example, both of original intent and of editorial rewriting.
The story that I meant is "Quo e la magia di San Valentino."
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Feb 19, 2022 at 11:43pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Feb 19, 2022 at 11:43pm
I see from INDUCKS that there have in the last year been three more Italian stories written by Francesco Vacca including the female Woodchucks Michelle and Beth from Edrighi's Operazione Alaska: story #1, story #2, and story #3. Also, there was a story by Davide Aicardi where those two appear in cameo. (A male Woodchuck from Operazione Alaska, Jamal, also appears in the three Vacca stories.) So those characters continue to be used, beyond the Nucci story I mentioned earlier. The Italians have clearly incorporated the two girls into the Woodchucks.
By the way, the title listed on INDUCKS for story #3 is "Le Giovni Marmotte..." That's gotta be a misprint, don't you think?
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Feb 19, 2022 at 11:57pm QuotelikePost OptionsPost by bats on Feb 19, 2022 at 11:57pm
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Feb 19, 2022 at 11:43pm Matilda said:
By the way, the title listed on INDUCKS for story #3 is "Le Giovni Marmotte..." That's gotta be a misprint, don't you think?
Yeah, it's a typo, you can see the real title in the scan at the bottom of the page.
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Feb 20, 2022 at 12:10am QuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Feb 20, 2022 at 12:10am
Of course, thanks, bats!
On the timing of all the stories mentioned on this thread:
The first I know of is still the NÊrum & LÞkling/Midthun Northern Blight (2014), with the female Woodchuck Maia. Then in 2018, the Gentina one-pager and the Jaakko SeppÀlÀ/Daniel Pérez "Look for Life." Then "Operazione Alaska" (2020) and the five Italian stories since which have used the Woodchucks introduced in that story.
If anyone runs across other and especially earlier stories with female Woodchucks who are clearly Woodchucks and not Chickadees, I'd be happy to hear about them. Any other named female Woodchucks anywhere, besides Maia and the Italians' Michelle and Beth?
The 1996 story Daniel Maline referred to, the Magic of St. Valentine, is listed in INDUCKS as featuring Chickadees and Woodchucks. If anyone has access to the Italian original and can verify whether the girls are in a separate scouting organization, that would be great. Daniel Maline says they do have different clothes; generally I assume that girls are only members of the Woodchucks if they're wearing a Woodchuck cap.
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Feb 20, 2022 at 3:00am Rrr likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by crazycatlord on Feb 20, 2022 at 3:00am
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Feb 9, 2022 at 5:28pm Matilda said:
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Feb 9, 2022 at 9:38am juicymcduck said:
From the original Dutch (I translated very quickly, so don't expect anything worthy of Hemingway, but it still should do the trick):
âNo, we don't have the Junior Woodchucks' Manual! We've got the Chickadees' Book! And there are very useful things in it!â
âHa! Ha! Like how to paint your nails, surely?â
âPooh! It explains how to distinguish the buttercup from the kingcup!â
âNow who's interested in that?â
âAnd the difference between pines and spruces!â
âWhat's the use of that?â
âIt explains the difference between a toad and a frog!â
âHa! Ha! That's what we call a useless book!â
âA real Junior Woodchuck can see that from a kilometer away...â
âIt also tells you how to distinguish a patch of grassland from a pond covered with DUCKWEED from a distance!â
Thank you, juicymcduck!! So this does tell us that Geradts (at least for the purposes of this particular one-pager) views the two scouting groups as separate organizations with different manuals.
As a reader with a Rosa-shaped headcanon, I have a problem with the first two responses from the Woodchucks--they shouldn't pooh-pooh the ability to identify plants. The last response is better: "A real JW can see that...." For my own purposes, I would rewrite this so that the JWs' first two responses would be something like, "That's obvious!" or "We've known that since we were Minor Marmots [or whatever the equivalent of Cub Scouts is in the JWs!]" or "Anyone can tell that!" Then the JWs would be sunk (heh-heh) not by their disinterest in learning but by their hubris about their own knowledge, which feels more appropriate!
The Portuguese version is a bit better - instead of âA real Junior Woodchuck can see that from a kilometer away...â, is "Any Woodchuck see these differences from far away and..."; because "differences" is in the plural, it is implicit that they are talking about all those things, meaning that they think the book is useless because the differences are obvious, not because it is useless to know the difference.
Last Edit: Feb 20, 2022 at 3:06am by crazycatlord
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Mar 1, 2022 at 9:59pm Matilda likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by Spectrus on Mar 1, 2022 at 9:59pm
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Feb 8, 2022 at 5:36pm Matilda said:
Earlier on this thread I noted the Dutch story Mix, whose summary says that due to financial constraints, the Junior Woodchucks and the Chickadees are going to merge. I asked whether anyone had read that and could say more about it, but no one has responded so far.
I found the magazine again where that story was contained - the book with the Italian story for must be hidden somewhere 
I'll report back when I've reread the story.
^ In my opinion
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Mar 7, 2022 at 10:24am Matilda likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by Spectrus on Mar 7, 2022 at 10:24am
So I read it and realized why I had immediately forgotten about that story. It has some nice gags but is pretty stupid.
Spoiler - Summary
Last Edit: Mar 7, 2022 at 10:25am by Spectrus
^ In my opinion
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Mar 7, 2022 at 4:13pm Spectrus likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Mar 7, 2022 at 4:13pm
Thanks for the summary of Mix, Spectrus! Now I know it's not worth it to try to find a copy of it  ! If the girls are going to win over the boys, I don't want it to be because the boys are stupidly not using the most up-to-date techniques. But it's helpful to know that the INDUCKS description is accurate as to the relationship between the two scouting organizations in this story. Separate, contemplating merger, rejecting it. Is it indeed financial constraints that make them consider merging?
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Mar 7, 2022 at 11:04pm Matilda likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by Spectrus on Mar 7, 2022 at 11:04pm
Yes, I didn't mention that because it was already stated in this thread. It's really just a pretext. The JW leader says they're not going to compete today but work together (with the Chickadees). Huey, Dewey and Louie had been looking forward to a competition and they quickly turn this into a competition too!
^ In my opinion
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Mar 8, 2022 at 12:30am Spectrus and Pim like thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by bats on Mar 8, 2022 at 12:30am
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Mar 7, 2022 at 10:24am Spectrus said:
Anyway, they are so opposed to the idea that they suggest a competition (to prove whether the Chickadees are up to snuff). HDL are doing pretty much everything the classic Scout way, whereas the girls...
- use coal to build a fire
- have an inflatable tent
- use modern navigation systems to find a spot
In all cases, they are more efficient than the boys.
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Mar 7, 2022 at 4:13pm Matilda said:
If the girls are going to win over the boys, I don't want it to be because the boys are stupidly not using the most up-to-date techniques.
Scouting is supposed to teach survival skills that requires minimal equipment. "Knowing you can buy stuff" is not "wisely using modern techniques".
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Mar 8, 2022 at 2:49am Spectrus likes thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by Matilda on Mar 8, 2022 at 2:49am
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Mar 8, 2022 at 12:30am bats said:
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Mar 7, 2022 at 10:24am Spectrus said:
Anyway, they are so opposed to the idea that they suggest a competition (to prove whether the Chickadees are up to snuff). HDL are doing pretty much everything the classic Scout way, whereas the girls...
- use coal to build a fire
- have an inflatable tent
- use modern navigation systems to find a spot
In all cases, they are more efficient than the boys.
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Mar 7, 2022 at 4:13pm Matilda said:
If the girls are going to win over the boys, I don't want it to be because the boys are stupidly not using the most up-to-date techniques.
Scouting is supposed to teach survival skills that requires minimal equipment. "Knowing you can buy stuff" is not "wisely using modern techniques".
True that! My "stupidly" was meant as a reflection of the apparent judgment implied in the story, with the decision by the adults that the JWs had to learn from the Chickadees. This was apparently supposed to be the boys' comeuppance for assuming the girls wouldn't meet their standards. Now, if the JW leaders had said what you just said....
Last Edit: Mar 8, 2022 at 2:50am by Matilda
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! If the girls are going to win over the boys, I don't want it to be because the boys are stupidly not using the most up-to-date techniques. But it's helpful to know that the INDUCKS description is accurate as to the relationship between the two scouting organizations in this story. Separate, contemplating merger, rejecting it. Is it indeed financial constraints that make them consider merging?